I’ve just come across this site, and the core developers of Plone should be forced to print it out and eat it – maybe then they would start listening to some of their users. Leaving the complexity issues aside for the moment, the single thing they need to do is to provide a consistent API between versions that doesn’t break applications already developed. They could then change the internals as much as they liked, and it wouldn’t matter.

I have made this suggestiopn to them on a couple of occassions, and it is as if I am talking a foreign language to them. Their reply is always along the lines that it would « restrict » adding new features/capabilities.

This is total bullshit – you are right, they just like coding for coding’s sake. Could you image how long Oracle would last if each new release broke every application built on top of it ?

I was attracted to Plone because of the capability of building the application model in a UML tool, then automatically generating the code, which I did for a music history project (www.franktraynors.au.com).

It is still running on Plone 2.5 as the very same UML model would not generate to Plone 3 using Joel Burtons public site. Some of the 3rd party applications also break on Plone 3, although I eventually have it all working on a test machine after wasting more time doing so than it took to get the original site functional.

I am dreading even thinking about getting it to run on Plone 4, as NONE of the 3rd party apps are available for Plone 3, due I suspect, to the reasons you give above.

Regards,

I’ll answer your two points :

1/
I’m impressed that you seem to know more about my own work than I do ;)
But I’m still (heavily) using CMSes, Plone beeing one of them. I’m still using, recommanding and selling CMS solutions. Should I feel sorry for that ?
Even if I didn’t want to _write_ this while at was at Ingeniweb, that was something I was worried about (see next point).

2/
I remember asking _you_ to try something else for a minor project and you refused. So you can’t say I didn’t do anything – even if I did not do it well in your eyes.
What you call « The hand that feeds me » is the knowledge of content management in general, not any particular tool. Would you trust a seller that would only know ONE brand of a product ? It would be very dishonest to promote Plone « blindly ». For example, in general, Plone as a blog sucks. WordPress is better at this. (note to py-flamers : « in general », I said).

The funniest part of your comment is that… you agree with me (as many others do after one or two beers) : Plone’s getting more complicated and less popular.
Yeah, sure, Plone 4 (and even 5, and even 6 and 7 as well) is full of promises. But what if I need a CMS RIGHT NOW ? Except for fine-grained content security projects I’ll choose another CMS.
I’ll consider Plone again as a mainstream CMS for my projects when a n+1 Plone version will REMOVE more concepts than it adds (it’s not only about code reduction but overall framework simplification).

Anyway, I don’t pretend I’m right. I know this is an emotional post and that’s why I put a personal title to it (« Why I’m leaving Plone » is not « Why everybody should leave Plone », as far as I know !). Many people who answered me said :
- Your figures are wrong, eZ/Drupal/Joomla is less popular than it seems (maybe… but, still, they’re more popular).
- It’s not because something is popular that it is good (right… but what is widespread is cheaper ; and, most important, I’m not complaining about the fact that Plone is not popular, but about the fact that its popularity is DECREASING ; nobody gave me an explanation for this).
- Plone is not slow at all provided you spend time tuning it (right… but out of the box, most PHP CMS will be faster than Plone prior to any tuning… so in that way they’re cheaper to implement).
- Plone is getting simpler (right… show me an official simpler version and I’ll trust you – I’ve never read anywhere that people would remove ZPT or Achetypes… I’ve read they’ll build other stuff on the top of it… once again if I’m wrong just tell me so).
- You’re bitter, you’re mean, you denigrate (oh, yeah, right… and you ?)

So, Jean-Mat, ask yourself those questions :
- Amongst the people who quitted your company, how many of them are still working on Plone ?
- How many new Plone projects are you hearing about every month ?
- How many Plone developpers have their personnal blog built with Plone ?
- How easy is it to hire a skilled Plone developper ?
- Was Plone used to build your company’s website ?

Then maybe you’ll share a tiny bit of my feelings :)

Your article is interesting, but it comes too late for two reasons :

* If you were writing it when you were always working at Ingeniweb, i mean when you were always using and selling Plone, the credibility of your intends would have been more clear. Today you are working in a place where you do not sell CMS solutions, it reminds me of a child choosing his new Christmas gifts.

* If you were writing this article when we (developpers and integrators which were working under your decisions) were suffering with new Plone3 concepts and technologies, when we were doubting about these new technologies, in 2007/2008, some of us would have approved you at least for your temerity to talk about the elephant in the room, but at this period of time you didn’t say nothing and you were letting us down with our learning curve ( http://macadames.wordpress.com/2007/12/24/plone-usine-a-gaz/ ). Today, we are really cool with these concepts because some people have been writing good books telling how to play with it. So don’t bite the hand that feeds you, be honest with yourself, your ticket is not …

I’m right with you about Plone’s learning curve and Plone’s popularity, the first has been increasing as the second has been decreasing, and for a cause and effect reason no doubt. But i believe that Plone4 and Plone5 will inverse the curves and i think your appreciation of Plone’s future is not right : did you read something about dexterity and deco ? we are waiting for that impatiently.

After all, denigrating Plone, and by the way, denigrating your old colleagues’ work close to our clients, especially in this period of crisis is not very worthy of you. I’m asking myself about your reasons behind.

I hope you will reply to my approximative english, friendly ;-)

Well, but it still works!! If you buy a 2003 book about Joomla or Drupal, does it still work?